The most careful, nuanced, and robustly biblical answer I've seen appears in Don Carson's book The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God (Crossway, 2000). Yes- that is correct! Is John 3:16 the lens through which every other verse must be read? . The way Calvinist teachers get around this is by using subtle misleading word tricks and teaching double-think. A wise son brings joy to his father, 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. Where Person [P] is predestined to think/say/do [X], the power to Do Otherwise than [X] does not exist for [P]. I cannot think of a single person in my former church who would have agreed that Baptism, The Lords Supper and another frequently unmentioned historical requirement church membership are necessary to enter the kingdom of God. Did He not plan their stubbornness from the foundations of the world? These are Calvinists whom Calvins god deceives with a FALSE SENSE of salvation And if you want to enjoy the love of complacency you have to be in Christ. Assuming that is true, lets add to that Calvins teaching that in the Calvinist church there is a The lion roars and hunts down prey, but God feeds it. Calvinism makes it clear from the start that the atonement is LIMITED so therefore never even offered. I almost have more respect for the high Calvinist that just deal with the implications of their systematic and say God doesnt love everybody rather than the MacArthur type that use good words and fair speeches (Romans16:18 KJV) to carefully dance around the issue. Others open the same book always expecting to find some new reason to treasure God. Of course not. We are to forgive one another as Christ Jesus has forgiven Us. Thank you. He creates/designs a few for good and the many for eternal torment in a lake of fire and not only that it, is for His good pleasure! But I know Dr. Thank you for the work you are doing. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. For to have a true covenant love relationship by the Godhead with creatures in His image there must be a free-will response as possible. California - Do Not Sell My Personal Information. That is why when young Calvinist pastors asked D.A. Flowers is a man of Forgiveness and does not hold a grudge. Thanks. For 33 years, he served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota. I posted some quotes on this site from Calvinist Hero Augustine about baptism and participation at the table (for salvation). Jesus clearly characterized His Father as One who loves even those who purposefully set themselves at enmity against Him. Historically,one theological camp has answered with an unqualifiedyes, while some in another offeran unqualifiedno. I would like to point out that this narrative is very consistent throughout scripture. But it seems to me thats exactly what the Scriptures teach. You counted this provisional type love as Gods love for all people. [Dont be deceived Adam was a mere man, with no power to cast a curse upon all of mankind. Well, Ill try. All rights reserved. . Many cults, and religious errors use the very words of scripture to arrive at meanings, beliefs and doctrines that do not hold up to the smell test when compared to all that God reveals about himself and his works in scripture. Does God Love Everyone in the Same Way? - Desiring God This is totally owing to the abundance of his grace, since nobody deserves it. John Calvin Is this biblical to say that phrase to just anyone?". God does not love everyone! It is made very clear, throughout the text, that this not receiving was the result of mens REFUSAL to believe, in Jesus, and God who sent (gave) Him. The sun falls on the unjust as well as upon the just. I think A.W. 1. Ironically, in the name of happiness, parents are directing their adult children to a life that has less of it. The Bible itself uses "love" in a number of ways, so this kind of ambiguity is to be expected. BrD. Andy: Well, we love our first three that way, and we love our other three too we just have a different kind of love for them. Man is nothing and God is everything in the matter of salvation,the underlying problem here isnt interpretation of this truth but believing this truth.. Except in determinism-Calvinism where God tells them not to trust idols but (wink, wink) really wants them to (since apparently He always gets what He wants). Stoic: I dont know about the god of the Christian bible but I do know that Zeus, blessed be his name, at the foundation of the world, decrees all things, which come to pass. Does God love Christians in a different way than He loves non-Christians? He specifically designs the MANY of his creatures for eternal torment in the lake of fire. Contributing Writer May 23, 2023 The subject of God's love is essential to your faith as a Christian. No choosing possible for the non-elect. . I would say, God loves all of the lost uniquely and sufficiently to enable them to seek to trust His mercy, whereupon, if they do, He becomes able through giving them the new birth to start loving them as His own forever. 4:8). I will do the same. Yall would be among those who condemned Jesus for running around and schmoozing with sinners; but he happened to know where the need was, and was not afraid of soiling himself by hanging out with sinners. The video down below. There is no way we can come up with answers to these kinds of questions without relying decisively on Gods word. If we interpret scripture away from literacy we can deny truth as you just have,some parts of scripture are figurative and spiritual language But it will always teaches a literal truth. Since all Christians believe that humans are born in a state that is discernible by God as requiring salvation what difference does it make to us humans whether or not that state is described as wicked or not? The two choices above have been written in distinction to make a point. 5:45). It should help them realize that they are bringing something to the passage from their theology to interpret the passage, instead of trying to be faithful to the meaning that is found there according to normal rules of context and grammar. The very word desire (and the original terms from which it descends) would be meaningless if God originated whatsoever comes to pass, thought, word and deed. -quote: I'm very encouraged by that in most respects. Some men read the Bible assuming theyve seen it all before. Good observation FOH. I want to note what it says on the back cover again and then have it responded to by someone else who actually does not mention the book by name. But it cannot be denied the response it clear and precise nonetheless and hits the target of what I am reading thus far, Especially the Traditional Baptist Foundation Verse for this Book, John 3:16, is talked about and is emphatically shown how it is watered down and read into it as if it speaks of some ability of the mystical fictitious idol of exercising the man-made idol of free-will to believe and faith in Christ through innate faith which is passed naturally and not a gift of grace given by God the Holy Spirit. First lets review a few facts. Stoic: No man knows who Zeus has predestined for eternal bliss and who he has ordained for eternal damnation. . Here, the theological term complacency is not referring to an attitude of being at ease in Zion, or the way we speak about being complacent. Rather, it describes the special love that He has for His Son and those who are in His Son; that is, those who are adopted into His heavenly family. Jude exhorts his readers, Keep yourselves in Gods love (Jude 21), leaving the unmistakable impression that someone mightnotkeep himselfin Gods love. When the delineating line between good and evil is breached, and one morphs into the other, making good and evil almost indistinguishable within the nature and character of God, the expounder is forced to forward his assertions while reflecting benevolenceand confusion is guaranteed. 1:18; 2 Cor. With love like that, there is no need for hate. You keep referring to an offer of salvation when in fact it is a gift of God to the elect not an offer. 2015 Pilgrims in Progress Regional Conference. The Calvinist theologians must persuade themselves, and their followers, that God exhibits a lesser form of love to the so-called reprobate, while reserving his greater love for his so-calld elect. You may remember that on Friday we talked about whether non-Christians can honor God. No, not in regards to His merciful love. He does not love everybody. He further argued that the word world in John 3:16 (For God so loved the world) refers to the world of believers (Gods elect), in contradistinction from the world of the ungodly.[1]. Few Calvinists are willing to say that God desires sin, murder, abuse and oppression to exist, thus brought them all to pass. Grace No-one is born foolish or a worker of iniquity. Jesus did not die as Anyone for others. Here is the Lord saying that people will do things that violate His commands. This is a fact that all who proudly bear the name of Calvinist need to own. But the Lord instill into them a *SENSE* such as can be felt*WITHOUT* the spirit of adoption. Of course dead people (if they are dead like Calvinists say) dont reject anything. Itsprimarily the moral order in willful and culpable rebellion against God. The elect may be the entire nation of Israel or the church as a body or individuals. I'm deeply concerned about a growing trend I've noticed particularly among people committed to the biblical truth of God's sovereignty and divine election. From one of our live events, R.C. Is God patient with the reprobate who he hated and rejected for salvation before he was born or had done anything good or bad.. While attempting to maintain some semblance of divine love for those unconditionally rejected by God in eternity past, they appeal to Gods common provisions such as rain and sunshine. Nevertheless, John can elsewhere speak of the whole world (1 John 2:2), bringing bigness and badness together. Having been a Calvinist, I am willing now to take the time to caution people away from a Greek-philosophy-led idea that God created 99% of His creation in His image, only to exact His retribution on them for doing exactly what He created them for. Unfortunately for the Calvinist, these implications *WHEN MADE CLEAR* are extremely hard to sell in the general Christian marketplace. Is the same argument that a non-believer uses as well to justify not believing. Outside of churches, we often see signs that read, "God loves you!" and we have heard pastors and Christians tell everybody within hearing distance that God loves them. Does God Love Everyone? - Third Millennium Ministries . Sproul answers the question, Is it biblical to say that God loves everyone?, "Often I hear the phrase 'God loves you' proclaimed to a group of people which may include both Christians and non-Christians. Calvinist rhetorical tactics essentially boil-down to attempts to deny or camouflage one or all of the above facts. It must never be reduced to a merely academic matter. So you will find many Calvinists can be quite sensitive about the Evil part of their doctrine. The argument inevitably goes like this: Psalm 7:11 tells us "God is angry with the wicked every day." Take for example the following two statements It doesnt say that He sent His Son into the world to save everybody in the world, but rather to save those who would put their faith in Him. He loves both the righteous and the unrighteous in exactly the same way we are told to love our enemies. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. . He does have a different love an electing love, a saving love for some and not all. This is clearly untrue based upon John 16:27. It is by Fisher Humphreys and Paul E. Robertson. That is a scholars answer! If God needs to give the same grace to everyone then it isn't grace anymore it's obligation. Yes; because believers have exercised faith in God's Son, they are saved. We believe that faithful proclamation of the gospel is what our hostile and disoriented world needs. Man is nothing and God is everything in the matter of salvation,the underlying problem here isnt interpretation of this truth but believing this truth. . 2) Predestination eradicates Do Otherwise than what is predestined. Does God love everyone? Yes and no. - Knox Church (EPC) A. Good News!! All those things are infinitely true about God, of course, but not in the way most people think. Carefully crafting sentences to make them *APPEAR* as libertarian as possible through word trickery. Not my style of Grace. I first watched your youtube video and was planning to transcribe what you said in it. To ignore God's merciful love, to reject the Savior who bought us (2 Peter 2:1), is to subject ourselves to God's wrath for eternity (Romans 1:18), not His love. Yes it does. On the question of divine love in Reformed thinking if you dont mind me making a comment these instructions go on and on. How are we to do that? D. If anyone is ashamed of me.. These unbelieving ones are the ones God hates and created for greater condemnation., Grace writes: Does God REALLY Love Everyone? - SOTERIOLOGY 101 One of the most common theological questions Ive been asked as a pastor and professor goes something like this: Does God love everybody inthe same way? 4) How do we know what is predestined? B. And the human power to Do Otherwise from what the THEOS determines exists only as human illusions. We need to remember that God's wrath does burn against impenitent sinners (Psalm 38:1-3). God loves his people, his creation, and this fallen cosmos, and that unfathomable truth should lead us to worship him fervently, crying out with the great apostle, For from him and through him and to him are all things. God is glorified in the condemnation of the wicked; He is glorified in every expression of love for all people without exception; and He is glorified in the particular love He manifests in saving His people. In Matthew 5:44-45, Jesus says, "I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. No.just Hes our guy!. When I hear preachers stand up and say that 'God loves everybody unconditionally,' I want to scream and say, Wait a minute. Calvinists seeking to draw people into their system have therefore relied heavily upon dubious rhetorical tactics, in an attempt to hide the unpalatable aspects of their belief system. When we commit those errors, we throw off the biblical balance, distort the true nature of God, and diminish His real glory. Christ Himself saying .you, you, you. By the power He gives us?. Very well explained, and is exactly what I have encountered speaking and dealing with Calvinists. 36 And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Many in the battle against lust try to shut off the imagination, but what if God means for you to win the battle through imagination. Since it is the case that Calvinists have no way of discerning whether or not their fellow Calvinist still remains in the wicked state, in which he/she was born, then whether they are wicked or not is only discernible to Calvins god. The Cavlinist answer to your post would be that if God really loved He would make His grace effectual not just possible. They say that the fall of human beings into sin and the judgments that follow are things that have been chosen by human beings rather than decreed by God. To draw a feeble analogy, Carson writes, there is a sense in which my love for my children is immutable, regardless of what they do. For meexegeting-away the difficult verses that you bring to this discussion is so much easier than dealing with the thousands (yes, not dozens, scores, or hundreds) of verses that point towards Gods intention to let man have a choice in a reciprocal relationship. CALVINISM SELLING THE PRODUCT THROUGH WORD TRICKERY. We have been force-fed the doctrines of self-esteem for so long that most people don't really view themselves as sinners worthy of divine wrath. He only loves .015% of humanity though all are created in His image (and we are to love them). are calling out the truth that He is the Son of God. Trust in the mercy/grace of God is necessary before God alters ones state through the new birth and makes their state everlasting in the forgiveness of God and as a child of God. Scripture's full teaching on God's love sheds needed light on aphorisms such as "God loves everyone the same way," or "God loves us unconditionally.". From one of our live events, R.C. Love is the best known but least understood of all God's attributes. The one thing I find curious though even before I start the book, so this is just an opinion and not an assertion. The author of the text frames the sentence presenting the notion that God has endowed persons with the ability to DO OTHERWISE than what they in fact do. . Does God love everyone or just Christians? | GotQuestions.org Dr. Michael Kruger, President and Professor of NT at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Matthews, NC (Charlotte) Womens Bible Study Class on Romans. Affiliate disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases on Amazon.com. Right? In each case, God sets his affection on his chosen ones in a way he doesnt set his affection on others. His death was an in-union-with kind of death; the "for us" cannot be separated from the "with us.". It is the equivalent of a magician holding up a glittering object (A). God has given to the world the light which if received gives true light to every man coming into the world. In no sense does belief in divine sovereignty rule out the love of God for all humanity. Gods love is directed toward Israelin a way itsnotdirected toward other nations. Because for the Calvinist those words dont have their NORMATIVE meanings. (from John 1-5). 3. The way Calvinists meet this challenge, for the most part, is by formulating deceptive talking-points. For me to accept Calvinisms conception of Grace, scripture would have to state it outright, as it appears to me to contradict, as FOH loves to point out, the thousands of verses that reveal Gods heart of love for all mankind, his desire to save all men from sinful, destructive choices and patient desire that men will see the futility of their willful rebellion and come to him in sorrowful repentance. If there is one aspect of the All-Powerful that the church and the rest of the world keep emphasizing, it is that he is love. Then he chose to same some, Calvinism asserts, from the power under which he chose to put them.]. Heres old Grace again. 11:28-30), He is making an appeal from a sincere heart of self-sacrificial love. Cry out the Good News! Bible reading Christians understand God as a perfect being who is infallible. One of those attributes in this case being the attribute of love. A. Andy: Well, those three we dont require to go to church with us. Because that is the case and because many things come in the form of Good-Evil pairs you are going to find Calvinists who have a kind of love-hate relationship with the doctrine. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God. . As a Christian parent, were told to do everything in our power to raise our children to know the Lord. Historically and theologically we distinguish among three types of divine love. And it's just not true that God loves us unconditionally. 22:37-38). C. If you.you will but if you . I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency. In this scheme Alternate Possibilities from what the THEOS determines exist only as human illusions. Pastor: Youre just not getting what Im saying to you. Will the real Gospel stand up? Why does the Lord call anyone righteous? Does God Love Whom He Does Not Save? - Grace to You View our current career opportunities. Tim Doctrine doesnt by itself alter an eternal state. that those who read/ swallow/ memorize that site only get one side of the situation? 4 Ways to Navigate Minefield Conversations. Is It Biblical to Say That God Loves Everyone. Please make sure all fields are filled out. He is coauthor or coeditor of six books, including Taming the Tongue: How the Gospel Transforms Our Talk (TGC, 2021), To the Ends of the Earth: Calvins Mission Vision and Legacy, and 15 Things Seminary Couldnt Teach Me (Crossway, 2018). I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. So theres a unique, praying love that he performs for them and not for others. The Heart of What is Wrong with Calvinism. In terms of whether God loves everyone the same, I would say no. Prov 10 His chosen is everyone). https://mikejeshurun.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/a-w-pink-god-does-not-love-everybody/. Dont you love them and care about their eternal souls? And few, if any, Calvinists in the pew would accept such a definition of how God deals with men. Micromanagement or else He might not get His will. What a swell bunch to hang out with, huh? Yes, I think if I was an ardent calvinist Id find it hard to tell anyone what I really believed. They are considered by the leading scholars as in the genre of poetic texts. Start with verse 4 This book shows that one of the most popular and resurgent theological movements in the . There could be nothing in all of creation except what God desired if Calvinism/Determinism were true. As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. and was so enthralled with your treatment of 1 Cor. Request the classic book and Stephen Nichols companion teaching series. ; then cant we assume that both are in fact simultaneously true of God? While we have breath, we should be bent on bringing as many people as we can into this amazing grace, even if it costs us our lives, because thats what it cost Jesus to bring us in. Does God Love the Wicked the Same Way He Loves the Elect? why do you want us to listen to a Reformed-determinist? Whats more.. even those who claim redemption (even in Calvinist churches) might actually be part of the very large number of hypocrites who have nothing of Christ but the name and appearance so that God can savor their greater condemnation and strike them with even greater blindness.. You believe that the Greek god Zeus predestines every mans eternal fate? FOH Unless one begins to grasp the truth that Jesus was mainly building His church outside of RC since the 4th century, they will feel compelled to see Augustine as the founder of Christian orthodoxy. My opinion counts for very little. God does not love everyone *equally*, rather God loves everyone *uniquely*. And, as FOH suggests, we must keep in mind the distinctives of the language of scripture. So, one must not build a theology (I like to use the word scaffold a theology -since it could be nothing but a bunch of loose poles tied together) on random word choices. A native of Blairsville, Georgia, he pastors Christ Fellowship Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, and serves as adjunct professor of church history at Southern Seminary. Those same truths, reflecting a biblical balance, have been vigorously defended by a host of Reformed stalwarts, including Thomas Boston, John Brown, Andrew Fuller, W. G. T. Shedd, R. L. Dabney, B. I know this individual is not a fan favorite of this site and probably not of Dr. That God does not love everyone, but only the elect, is a hyper-Calvinist error. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. He hates the world, He hates those who are swift to shed blood, and we have to take that into account. The Israelites had to go get it! This they do not derive from the express teachings of scripture, but deduce in order to concoct and defend their system of belief. 17K views, 681 likes, 227 loves, 89 comments, 363 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Ligonier Ministries: Does God love everyone in the same wayboth His. That is why you will observe so many things within Calvinism appear in the form of DUALISTIC pairs. Thefourth way of speaking of Gods love is unlike the previous three. But the leaders Jesus was using to build His church had to be qualified in sound doctrine. Man can however have A-Posteriori knowledge (i.e., knowledge after the fact by empirical evidence) of what was predestined. Hi Sian, At this point, however, an important distinction must be made: God loves believers with a particular love. Does God Love Everyone?: The Heart of What's Wrong with Paul, in Lystra, says to the crowd, In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways. Ya think maybe there is a little poetic license going on here? 8:4). Does God Love Everyone the Same? - The Gospel Coalition So the Calvinist consistently can be found speaking out of two sides of the mouth. Pink says it best: For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world (John 6:33). But Gods condition is that we exhibit faith and act on it. He seems genuinely disappointed that they are being stubborn. Omniscience apart from love is worthless. Thats just silly. Alas, I have crossed over to the dark side, of those who are willing to listen to and entertain the opinions and insights of others; even and most importantly, those who think very differently from me. View our current career opportunities. Lynne Rudder Baker A Christian Determinist/compatiblist in her publication: Why Christians Should Not Be Libertarians: An Augustinian Jesus depicts a world in which God clothes the grass of the fieldwith the glory of wildflowers seen by no human, perhaps, but seen by God. Its an electing love, a regenerating love, a preserving love that we will be loved with forever a divine, glorifying love. 145:9). Own it Calvinists! This intra-Trinitarian love is expressed in a relationship of perfection between the Father and the Son, untarnished by sin on either side. View our current career opportunities. It raises us from the dead. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him . Many Calvinistic brethren, like MacArthur in the quote above, when discussing the sincerity of Gods love for all people, seem to distance themselves from the inevitable conclusions drawn by the implications of their own systematic. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. ), God tells us to love our neighbor and our enemy, yet you tell me that God only loves the elect small, small number. In other words, didhe love Nero to the same degreehe loves Billy Graham? When God invites His enemies to be reconciled (Isa. Im just saying that I love some of my children in the same way you said God loves all people. I am troubled by the tendency of some often young people newly infatuated with Reformed doctrine who insist that God cannot possibly love those who never repent and believe. He *ILLUMINES THEM ONLY FOR A TIME* to partake of it and then hestrikes them with greater blindness. I appreciate teachers and preachers that put work into their biblical study, so as to present texts in fresh and unique ways You have won me over. This is the witness of Scripture too. Augustine, Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1.24.34, in The Faith of the Early Fathers, vol. Article Images Copyright 2021 Jupiter Images Corporation. Why doesn't God save everyone? | GotQuestions.org Because salvation can only come through faith in Christ. And who is our neighbor? (Lk. What if it alters their present experience of Gods grace, joy, and peace? Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1930), 29-30. How we address the misconception of the present age is crucial. Verses are like sentences functioning as building blocks designed to be representations of a complete thought. There is a salvific/effectual ministry of the gospel and a NON-salvific NON-effectual ministry of the gospel This would disqualify Him as the perfect atoning sacrifice. Christ said when He is lifted up He will draw all men does NOT mean all men (It cant!!! . Which serves to divert your attention, in order to keep your focus off object (B). However, it leaves me with the question about how Im to understand Gods love toward the non-elect. Sproul helps us understand what it means that . Yet that is exactly what this pastor believed, most likely the denomination, and certainly a vast number of teachers of Reformed Theology. Paul calls it a great love in Ephesians 2:4. To the Ends of the Earth: Calvins Mission Vision and Legacy, Heresy at the Heart of Derek Webbs Boys Will Be Girls, Past Lives: Mature Wisdom in an Indie Romance, Marriage Is Better for Your Adult Kids Than You May Think, 4 Questions to Answer Before Giving Your Child a Phone, Why a Post-Christian World Needs Pastor-Theologians, Why Reformed Churches Need Contextualization, With Friendship in Decline, Belonging Is a Powerful Apologetic.